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Microbes Make Methane from Waste Wind Power

Ecomagination (General Electric) -- Scientists from Stanford and Penn State universities have discovered a process to convert electricity into methane —the main constituent of natural gas— using microbes. The fuel is carbon neutral and can use excess electricity.

“In a sense, it’s the Holy Grail,” says Alfred Spormann, professor of chemical, civil and environmental engineering at Stanford who is leading this research. “There is a microbiological way to convert electrical energy into chemical fuel. And methane is the most simple fuel that exists and where we have a fairly good infrastructure.”

While methane holds potential as a fuel source, it is also a potent greenhouse gas. It is released en masse from landfills, farms and natural gas spills and has more than 20 times the heat-trapping potential of carbon dioxide. But

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Submitted Aug 22, 2012 By: Martinman

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honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,643 Points:1,611,470 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 26, 2012 7:33:06 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse good to think outside the box. We need more of that.
PDQBlues Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,084 Points:1,450,275 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 10:09:48 PM Ignore PDQBlues Report Abuse Certain microbes are good at making methane by decomposing organic matter. Hopefully, it'll be commercially viable.
spiderjay Champion Author Little Rock Posts:4,773 Points:1,282,235 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:28:33 PM Ignore spiderjay Report Abuse sweet
Houckster Champion Author Atlanta Posts:9,347 Points:693,500 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 1:30:35 PM Ignore Houckster Report Abuse SUZZOOM writes: We've got a lot of methane in Congress. Let's harness our senators to our cars & see how well they run. _____ This is such a typical comment from people who want to look down on others but don't look to themselves. We elected these people. If there's a lot of methane in Congress, it really comes from the people who elected them.
Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:14,744 Points:2,094,805 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 12:18:11 PM Ignore Martinman Report Abuse crep1291 from Ottawa posted... "80% is excellent. But unless the methane is used for heating, there will be another 60-70% loss in its use. Wouldn't the spare power have better uses? " . GetMaxCashBack from Trenton posted... "With outdated transmission systems, wind farms and solar photovoltaic power plants often produce more electricity than can be used or stored." Wouldn't a better solution be to update the outdated transmission systems?! Each time you convert power from one form to another (electric to methane), some of it is lost. " ----- Realize that the "outdated transmission systems" and "spare power" refer to the electric grid design, not that the system is "old" or that there are other "uses" the power could be diverted to. First, understand that there are two "types" of power - 'base' power generation and 'peak' power generation. Base power refers to the baseline of power required to run a grid system over the course of the year to meet minimum demand plus some baseline reserve capacity. Peak power is that additional generating capacity that meets seasonal increases in demand (e.g. electric heating and additional light-use during winter; air conditioning use during summer). Traditionally coal was used for all power generation. But the inefficiency of coal-fired plants (often less than 30%) is not well suited for peak-demand, due to response time (you can't simply flip a switch and immediately start making power), making peak power generation by coal is even less efficient. As a result, oil- and gas-fired power generation had been the power of choice for peak-demand, because while more expensive, it could more rapidly be turned on (fired-up when demand increases) and off (shutdown when it decrease) and allow the power provider to meet peak needs for the least cost. Hydropower is another form of base power, but its true generating capacity cannot be relied on year-round. Excess capacity is either used more in a peak power role, or sold as excess capacity on the spot market. It can be used in a base power role, because seasonal changes in runoff mirror periods of increased spring and early summer energy use, and can be further moderated by using hydroelectric dams. While wind and solar may be used as base power sources, they require additional peak capacity margins for when the wind isn't blowing, or at night for solar. Thus while they are relatively "free" forms of energy, they are even less flexible than coal, oil, gas, and even hydro, in that they cannot be turned-on and -off as demand dictates. Thus devising a generating system that can generated 'free' electricity when ever it is available, and store excess electricity for use when its not available, allows for a larger percentage of the total energy needs to be generated from those free-energy sources. Its just like plants, that photosynthesize sun-energy when its available (spring, summer, fall), and store some of that energy for future use (late fall, winter, early spring, and at night during the growing season). That's the beauty in this system - if can be effective and as efficient at higher generating levels (i.e. scalable in a power plant versus a small demonstration project). The fact that it uses (removes) carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, stores it (sequestered as methane), and can be subsequently used (burned to generate electricity) releasing no more carbon dioxide than was initially removed from the atmosphere why its classified as being energy neutral. The primary difference between burning this form of "fuel" and ANY fossil fuel pulled from the ground, is that the microbe-methane uses existing atmospheric carbon dioxide, versus fossil fuels that release carbon dioxide that has been sequestered in the ground from millions of years. It simply becomes part of the natural carbon cycle, without disrupting its balance. .
packards42 Champion Author Washington Posts:6,452 Points:1,129,565 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 11:05:01 AM Ignore packards42 Report Abuse Very interesting running nuclear power at night to produce fuel??
Suzzoom Champion Author Nevada Posts:2,378 Points:508,090 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 10:49:39 AM Ignore Suzzoom Report Abuse We've got a lot of methane in Congress. Let's harness our senators to our cars & see how well they run.
orphancarguyPE Champion Author PEI Posts:3,860 Points:736,940 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 9:58:57 AM Ignore orphancarguyPE Report Abuse "Batteries" are just energy storage units. This is an interesting carbon-neutral way to look at the concept of batteries. Good going.
NukeAtComEd All-Star Author Milwaukee Posts:725 Points:338,520 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 9:47:34 AM Ignore NukeAtComEd Report Abuse could be an interesting way to "store" solar and wind power energy by getting a chemical fuel!
ktyson13 Champion Author Maryland Posts:1,546 Points:398,600 Joined:Aug 2010	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 9:13:20 AM Ignore ktyson13 Report Abuse Methane is not a waste product of wind power!?
crep1291 Champion Author Ottawa Posts:2,587 Points:481,455 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 9:09:18 AM Ignore crep1291 Report Abuse 80% is excellent. But unless the methane is used for heating, there will be another 60-70% loss in its use. Wouldn't the spare power have better uses?
GetMaxCashBack Veteran Author Trenton Posts:386 Points:165,675 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 9:03:20 AM Ignore GetMaxCashBack Report Abuse "With outdated transmission systems, wind farms and solar photovoltaic power plants often produce more electricity than can be used or stored." Wouldn't a better solution be to update the outdated transmission systems?! Each time you convert power from one form to another (electric to methane), some of it is lost.
Martinman Champion Author Mississippi Posts:14,744 Points:2,094,805 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 8:01:57 AM Ignore Martinman Report Abuse 10k from north carolina posted... "oh boy-more algoreaphobia: methane heats up the atmosphere, and everything melts ??.. y'all said it, not me-i just condensed it into single sentence form for those nobamanites who never graduated the 5th grade, but know how to vote in 3 precincts.. amen rob: DHAN.." ----- Directly from the article you chose not to read,... “The carbon for the methane comes from atmospheric CO2. The methane that is produced by the microbial electrosynthesis is essentially carbon neutral and so will all other commodity chemicals that can be produced that way,” he says. . Its carbon-neutral - it uses atmospheric CO2 to synthesize methane, just like a plant uses atmospheric carbon dioxide in photosynthesis. So when the methane is burned and the CO2 released, there has been ZERO-net CO2 added to the atmosphere. The problem with mocking others' intelligence,... is when you're wrong...
teamsimons Champion Author South Carolina Posts:2,483 Points:504,070 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:56:24 AM Ignore teamsimons Report Abuse We've never heard of converting "electricity into methane". Oh, wait, one has to use "carbon neutral" (whatever that is) as a fuel source. We'd like to see the biology and chemistry behind this process. Which little microbes do the conversion? Can anyone do this? And what is "waste wind power"? Still, what does this have to do with gas prices?
Jebeahm Champion Author Maryland Posts:1,252 Points:460,155 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:48:44 AM Ignore Jebeahm Report Abuse Worth knowing but that's all
swede Champion Author Cleveland Posts:3,777 Points:1,677,950 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:47:47 AM Ignore swede Report Abuse Good, now get private grants to make it economically feasible. The Universities and the Federal Government don't have the money to fund this type of project.
prcoqui Champion Author Maryland Posts:3,960 Points:1,675,150 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:46:27 AM Ignore prcoqui Report Abuse I hope it works.
OldMoses All-Star Author Atlanta Posts:749 Points:56,335 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:42:23 AM Ignore OldMoses Report Abuse I think that these universities are so strapped for cash that that their "scientists" are encouraged to foster any scam that they can come with to peddle to gullible government officials for grant money.
fordfan1 Champion Author Indiana Posts:9,102 Points:1,892,965 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:40:08 AM Ignore fordfan1 Report Abuse Another possible waste of our hard earned tax dollars to see if this really works!!!!!
Zuman Champion Author New York Posts:6,174 Points:1,900,630 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:37:03 AM Ignore Zuman Report Abuse OK
Nancy&Len Champion Author Cleveland Posts:2,063 Points:1,947,765 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:36:46 AM Ignore Nancy&Len Report Abuse Not a fan of anything that GE puts out.
livewire300 Champion Author South Carolina Posts:3,385 Points:166,935 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:35:21 AM Ignore livewire300 Report Abuse uuuhhh...
bigsranch Champion Author Houston Posts:3,156 Points:1,007,430 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:33:56 AM Ignore bigsranch Report Abuse Except we already have a couple hundred years' worth of natural gas that nobody wants to get or use. Making it this way makes no economic sense right now.
LuckyD43 Champion Author Long Island Posts:32,050 Points:2,170,020 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:32:19 AM Ignore LuckyD43 Report Abuse I'm not too sure about this one.
WonderfulMI Champion Author Michigan Posts:11,660 Points:1,788,860 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:31:50 AM Ignore WonderfulMI Report Abuse It would be even easier to make hydrogen.
alphanyr Champion Author Connecticut Posts:4,845 Points:677,700 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:31:48 AM Ignore alphanyr Report Abuse ok
sappie Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:3,506 Points:587,570 Joined:Jul 2010	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:31:45 AM Ignore sappie Report Abuse yuuuuuuuuuuuuup
gws2980 Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,191 Points:503,065 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:31:28 AM Ignore gws2980 Report Abuse Sounds like it would be costly to get the methane for the investment
Lengas Champion Author Gary Posts:13,561 Points:2,719,725 Joined:Nov 2004	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:30:50 AM Ignore Lengas Report Abuse good luck
1fulltank Champion Author Buffalo Posts:7,913 Points:1,546,260 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:29:32 AM Ignore 1fulltank Report Abuse Finding cost-effective energy from waste is a priority.
curlypooh Champion Author New Jersey Posts:11,181 Points:2,007,745 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:28:38 AM Ignore curlypooh Report Abuse And laws are made from political BS
hper Sophomore Author Detroit Posts:168 Points:276,035 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:27:53 AM Ignore hper Report Abuse Can't you stick a funnel on the back end of a cow?
Donliberty Champion Author New York Posts:1,678 Points:655,965 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:27:35 AM Ignore Donliberty Report Abuse ounds ok to me........
nb52 Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:7,790 Points:1,548,800 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:25:25 AM Ignore nb52 Report Abuse Another idea which will be costly to get mass consumer use.
QueenMother Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:7,403 Points:2,145,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:25:18 AM Ignore QueenMother Report Abuse Good for them.
fillerupyeoww Champion Author Columbus Posts:5,890 Points:1,651,390 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:25:09 AM Ignore fillerupyeoww Report Abuse We don't have 'excess electricity' to spend on making methane, which we don't need anyway. Probably just an excuse to pump up your electric bill.
rogerparry Champion Author Florida Posts:9,570 Points:1,918,380 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:25:00 AM Ignore rogerparry Report Abuse Great news.
Pointtx Champion Author Austin Posts:3,246 Points:727,030 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:24:43 AM Ignore Pointtx Report Abuse And where does the electricity come from? And how much potential energy is stored in the methane vs how much energy it took to produce it? Unless that equation is greater than one, it is certainly not anyone's Holy Grail.
PhilMils Champion Author Virginia Posts:6,264 Points:1,186,390 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:24:06 AM Ignore PhilMils Report Abuse I knew Penn State was a party school, but Stanford?
SpruceGuse2 Champion Author Michigan Posts:9,744 Points:2,456,635 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:23:53 AM Ignore SpruceGuse2 Report Abuse And?.........................
Clayton2000 Champion Author South Carolina Posts:2,419 Points:492,155 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:23:25 AM Ignore Clayton2000 Report Abuse O wow
Hunter724 Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:8,131 Points:1,648,025 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:23:14 AM Ignore Hunter724 Report Abuse Nice work so far...
dar 1 Champion Author Michigan Posts:5,903 Points:446,615 Joined:Jan 2005	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:22:44 AM Ignore dar 1 Report Abuse Maybe????
tamiuron Champion Author Laredo Posts:1,943 Points:727,410 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:22:42 AM Ignore tamiuron Report Abuse there is no perfect solution
Ringmaster2008 Champion Author Ontario Posts:7,588 Points:1,165,735 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:22:11 AM Ignore Ringmaster2008 Report Abuse There has to be a better way.
don10 Champion Author North Carolina Posts:1,538 Points:312,305 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:21:18 AM Ignore don10 Report Abuse obamas fault
gaspumpin Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,677 Points:390,370 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:20:00 AM Ignore gaspumpin Report Abuse Obama is full of methane. Convert him.
Petrock Champion Author Lexington Posts:9,133 Points:2,559,710 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:18:20 AM Ignore Petrock Report Abuse And all the while I thought we needed to turn fossil fuels into electricity. Now we have the "Holy Grail" where we turn electricity back into fossil fuel? I am really confused about this one.
JoJoQc Champion Author Montreal Posts:5,336 Points:1,040,155 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:16:58 AM Ignore JoJoQc Report Abuse Okay!
DrZNY Champion Author Albany Posts:2,569 Points:823,735 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 6:15:22 AM Ignore DrZNY Report Abuse Wow, science at work!